It is the pervasiveness of {Goons} that troubles me. Largest alliance, so they have big swing in the game. CSM swing, so they "speak for us" then they are in the company so they have control of the game swing.

Doesn't this bother anyone else? People get fired and disbarred as lawyers for conflicts of interest like this.

Further, someone in game mentioned that too many with one mind set can imbalance a game and ruin it. I hope that isn't happening.

Beware the force of perception.

Do you deny that the game has a heavy slant to push people into null sec? Why are they wanting to nerf ABC ores? Isn't the choice to stay in WHs and avoid null sec a prerogative of the customer?
Have to be careful when taking away options.

Getting late here but I am sure you can all find ways that the game pushes and keeps trying to push people into null sec.

Someone was suggesting the other day that null sec should be in the middle of space and the factions at each compass point.

The list of CSMs (I was told two have stepped down since the emergency meeting, anyone got confirmation?

Hypothetical possibility

On page 27

What could have happened is
Goons CEO "Get more people into null sec"
Goon staff of CCP "We remove ore so they must come to null sec! CSM Goons back me up"
Goons CSMs "There is much ore coming from WHs"
Other CSMs "Lies!"

Well said

CCP want more players in 0.0.

0.0 players invest more time/energy/real life money than high sec players.
0.0 players create the stories that drive EVE marketing.
0.0 is the defining difference between Eve Online and WOW in space.

Because 0.0 players invest more time/energy/real life money into the game they care more about what happens than other groups. They will ensure CCP hears their voice.

I can argue that my $15 ($30 actually) spends just like anyone else's and itll be spent elsewhere (An Im sure Im not the only one) when the Goons Destroy OUR game (Given they "dont want to destroy THE game, just YOURS") by making higsec unlivable.

and you guys complain about russians??

Not to mention VILE RAT bots aswell? hahahahh

let's see how goons damage controll this one

evenews24 expose goons RTM/bot ring

I can argue that unless you have dealt with the logistics of fitting fleet ships for a 1000man alliance when the nearest market hub is 24 gates away while under constant encroachment by enemy roaming gangs, that you little about time and energy investment.

Throw newbies in at the deep end and to Sansha space with the ones that drown!

Does it follow that that same place have a near-monopoly on low-end mineral mining, ice mining, T1 and T2 manufacturing, logistics, etc. due to its safety? Not really.

I doubt CCP soundwave is risking ....

And this is Eve so that is good....

running ppl on rails into 0.0 isnt what a sandbox is.
You cant create a sandbox game then ***** when theyre not playing it right.
there IS no right if its a true sandbox, which is what everyone calls this. If you start railing everyone alone level paths you lose the sandbox and turn it into something more akin to WoW. Where you can go where you want but if youve outlevelled an area youre not gonna profit by staying in there.

Please dont put WoW in my EVE. I like the flavor of my EVE as is.

The OP seems to believe the rights of high sec people are being trodden on by 0.0 alliances. To be blunt you have limited options:

1. Start your own alliance and evict some 0.0 members (can't beat em join em...)
2. Present yourself as a CSM candidate for 2012 and fight for the rights of H.S players in that medium
3. Use the advantages of High Sec to stifle 0.0 economies - Identify who your real trade partners are and only trade with High Sec dwellers.
4. Become a High Sec PVP corp and camp the pipes/gates/hubs frequently used by 0.0 alliances in High Sec.
5. Create threads bemoaning the bias exhibited by CCP toward 0.0 and comfort yourself with the warm arms of Cipher Jones embrace.

You can call pornography art. It doesn't make it any better.

I am willing to bet a significant amount of isk that if you pursue "option 6" you will find yourself holding "option 4" after 6 months.

If your intent on holding WH for isk generation why are you so worried about 0.0?

Please list, right here, right now, 10 nerfs that have hit the WH community in the last 6 months. (That being the period of time that the current CSM has been active)

[quote=Jenshae Chiroptera]
Once you get out into null, you'll see why rebalancing should be on the table.

If you think Goons do that every time, you are mistaken. .

ok so in this thread i've got too much power, in the other thread i'm a powerless marketing shill of ccp

OH GOD SO CONFUSED

If things get too skewed in one direction, it damages the game. The basic premise of a sandbox MMO is to offer something for everybody.

Or just decrease what their current level of income is. I'm more for shifting the second part of your statement, increasing the "additional ship losses" part of hisec life. CCP seems to be in favor of just outright removing hisec monopolies such as T2 manufacturing, T2 research, certain kinds of ice, etc. Pick your poison.

CCP and the players have had 5 years to get people to live in 0.0
Face the facts, there aren't that many players out there who enjoy that play style.

Your empty threat doesn't really change that.

Basic Premise:

Most of the wealth of EVE is too easily captured by a few alliances.

Most of the alliances are controlled by only a small number of actual players, compared to the total player base of EVE.

It is too easy for large alliances to hold vast stretches of 0.0 space. It is even easier for these few players to dominate other regions and even lowsec thru the use of alt-corps.

This means that only a few actual players can dominate most of the best parts of EVE, and the vast majority of the player base is cut out of the best parts of the game.

PVE <> PVP. The fittings are different, the play style is different.

It is too easy to make boatloads in 0.0 through macros/botting.

Threat. An empty one.

... who refuse to entertain the idea of working together for a goal.

Never said it wasn't entirely possible, nor even inferred it. So your own argument is illogical by your own criteria.

... you just have poor reading comprehensiony ...

0/10

funny thing? My main has had this experience, "he now has isk to buy anything he needs, good friends to hang out with, skill and knowledge to fly whatever he wants, and the knowledge that he is important to a large community." all in highsec

why cant you guys realize to let ppl play the way THEY want to. Like the "sandbox" ppl scream that this game is when its germane to their points in the argument theyre making.

Highboy meets up with his new corp mates after flying 30 jumps to their area of Highsec. He does missions progressing through the levels, training ...

Your version is exactly the kind of emergent gameplay that would be an ideal, with people getting recruited through a highsec arm and cycling into null when ready to live out there, but rarely works that way. I started highsec carebear, and tried to move to null, and its much harder after living in high for a while... you pick up some bad habits, especially in the area of afking

checks dotlan... funny, we sure seem to control of a region, and I haven't noticed many goons(or any non-FA pilots for that matter) living here. I musta not noticed all those pos that I set up going up with goon corps attached

Your corp was a success, congrats. Unfortunately, those are not as common as some people like to think, and thats because it takes alot of special talents to make a good corp go. Not every corp can achieve that.

Needless to say, personally I think the philosophy in design should be coming from the basic questions "When we implement this change how will it affect ALL players in the game"... if the answers is positive for everyone, the change should be implemented.

[(get people into existing structures instead of starting their own).

Nullsec makes EvE(and by extension CCP) get into the press.

I suppose its possible a friend brought you in, if thats the case, ask the friend why.

But the problem is this;
.

So the 20% of players are responsible for 80% of the ingame economy. Without that 20% driving the ship sales that are produced by the 80% in empire the 80% of high sec only players would find their economy dies.

Your argument is based on a false premise. The CSM gets to raise issues and provide feedback. They don't get to specify game mechanics, CCP does that.

Just as it was CCP that raised the issue of ABC ores in wormholes and will be the ones to decide if it is an issue that requires a change.

A "plausible" scenario that you invented is the basis of your complaint?

I repeat. The CSM doesn't get to give mechanics or even directions, they raise general issues and provide feedback if requested. This has been stated repeatedly by members of the CSM. If ABC ores get removed from wormholes it will be because CCP consider it an issue.

Posted in another thread, but relevant here me thinks, and by someone who normally hates everything about Goons.

Take off your Jita-bought tinfoil hats for a second and make up your minds dammit: Are Mittani, the CSM and Goons irrelevant fuckwits with no power whatsover over CCP or are they the Great Enemy of all Pubbiekind, plotting to take away your precious ores and l4 missions?

Right now we need to show CCP a united front as players, I think we can ALL support the current push which is nothing more that 'Get some developers working on EVE, fix it, and stop letting it stagnate'

Lets get behind them for now, and once EvE is getting the developer attention she deserves, we can go back to fighting over how that attention should be spent.

The metagaming aspect of Eve is actually greater than the game itself and this is made worse by CCP's unwillingness or inability to design around it. This is not good for Eve and is detrimental to attracting new subscribers. The "Moons=Plex=Cap Fleet=Sovereignty=Moons" Syndrome excludes new blood from participating. Once the new subscriber figures this out, he either quits or limits his game play to WH, trading, or industrial activities mostly in highsec.
.

Thread cleaned. Please try to post in a constructive matter.

[
What are you thanking him for? It's still a bad thread.

If you think the Mittani's main concern is the "average player" of Eve... You are delusional. There is only room for one "Queen" in the Hive.

Ah so you're just here to rant and not actually discuss anything. That might be why nobody is taking you seriously.

But keep tilting at windmills...and never stop posting.

I wasnt even saying that, I was saying "let ME play the game MY WAY"
Plus, theres no "end game" in a sandbox

TL;DR, short posts.

[quote=Jenshae Chiroptera]
Thanks, sweetmeat.

In sum, nullsec as it stands currently is laughably broken, and any sensible commentator or nullsec resident knows it - which is exactly why nullsec, in a rage, seized the CSM.

... you should feel bad.

How, pray tell, is this different from w-space? Eviction happens, fights happen, you cannot run sites behind a bubble camp and instantly know if anyone enters local. Also, w-space PvE you have to pay attention (i.e. not easily bottable).

Risk v. Reward, w-space is riskier, the only thing we are immune to is afk cloakies. You, on the other hand, can easily warp off grid before that interceptor that just entered local lands on you (especially given the time it takes to scan out that sanctum...)

It's always Lupus.[

Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.

Wow that's the same things Goons want. You should work with us.

[
Well the first one seems kind of obvious and unnecessary to state but the second item is pure paranoid fantasy. Believe me if we had as much power as you think we do nullsec wouldn't have been nerfed to hell and back and supercaps never would have become the I-Win button that they are today. Unless you think we just let those things slide to cover for our real power grab...

Haters, Can we get some luv in lowsec..

3. They do not challenge the corporate structure of CCP or make large accusations against CCP without large amounts of prior investigation.

In regards to your accusations of Goons attempting to rule the CSM for their own purposes: CSM 4 and CSM 5 largely ignored the development of 0.0 space.

Regarding your wormhole whine:

Wow, this thread is still going? Come on, you are apparently freaking out over one tiny change to game mechanics. There are plenty of good things coming as well, you need to calm down.

3. Lower quality space lower resources. Higher quality space higher resources. What does this have to do with how boring mining is? We all know mining is terribly boring.

Checked the values of ores which have Zydrine in them? Good luck getting that without Crokite mining

Why link a random log of you and a random person talking about things that no one has said apart from yourself?

Am I correct in understanding, then, that you'd propose disallowing members of large alliances from running?

What's the cutoff point for a small alliance?

it was all done by the rules - unsubbed accounts were resubbed via hours for plex, multiboxers voted with several accounts, single-account dudes voted with their accounts, and the drooling morons like windypops lost to an organized null-sec voting bloc.

basically cry all you want, in the end, CCP cares more about their customers who run numerous accounts and invest far more money and time into their game than the drooling idiots who burn out after 8 months of running highsec missions or mining trying to achieve an unattainable goal.

You should always view your elected representatives with scepticism. Fortunately, Mittens makes this easy!

.... and is welcome to read back on my blog to when I was running to find out more. ...

That doesn't answer my question. I'll repeat it again so you can take another stab at it:

Eurogamer: The Council of Stellar Management [CSM] has been increasingly vocal and rebellious in recent months. What's your relationship with them like at the moment - your personal feelings and those of the company as a whole?

Hilmar P+¬tursson: The CSM has been under constant evolution based on what's going on in the current environment, what's going on with CCP and Eve, who's on the Council and all that. The CSM has helped greatly through the years in getting feedback for aspects of the game.

But some of my concerns right now relate to whether the CSM is maybe focused on a particular aspect of the game and I'm starting to get feedback from players that they worry the CSM is too pre-occupied by a certain playstyle. That might mean we may need to change the structure, but definitely the CSM has worked as a feedback tool greatly throughout the years. We will have them over at the end of the year, after everything that's gone on, and we will have a chance to talk about that. We'll just see where we are and take it from there.

No rationale response so you go for the personal insult without adding anything else.

What I get from this thread: "nerf persuasive, attractive people who have charisma and a modicum of social graces"

Sorry kiddo.

... and yet now it gets moved without any reason given.

So we'll get one of our highsec alts to run as the highsec rep. Will that solve everything you're crying about?

"I've run out of ways to rephrase my lame arguments so I'm going to wait for somebody to do it for me."

Because it's a section of the forums dedicated to csm-related discussions?

EVE doesn't make excuses for people's unwillingness to avail themselves of freely-available information.

This is why people still try to mine in Gallente space, for example.

still this lol

First paragraph CSM can't change anything.

Second paragraph last CSM changed a bunch of things.

Holy **** the pubbies are getting smarter, or just ignoring this thread, which still means getting smarter.

Which are just as valuable as the forum where your post got dumped.